Dons fans chairman: "We did not want this tie, why should we be giving money to a club that stole from us?"

Richmond and Twickenham Times: Drop the Dons: Simon Wheeler (right) with Wimbledon Guardian reporter Omar Oakes earlier this year during the Drop the Dons campaign Drop the Dons: Simon Wheeler (right) with Wimbledon Guardian reporter Omar Oakes earlier this year during the Drop the Dons campaign

The chairman of the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association (WISA) Simon Wheeler says the potential FA Cup tie between AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons is about much more than football.

Should both teams get past replays on November 13 - the Dons face York City, while the MK Dons play Cambridge City - they will meet at Stadium MK on the weekend of December 1.

MK Dons were established in 2004 out of Wimbledon FC's relocation to Milton Keynes in 2003.

The club claimed the history of Wimbledon FC as it own, despite the existence of AFC Wimbledon, until 2007.

However, the club still refuses to drop the "Dons", despite wanting to be recognised as representing Milton Keynes.

Moreover, AFC Wimbledon fans say they were robbed by MK Dons of their rightful place in League One in 2004 - which effectively meant they had to start life again at the bottom of the football pryamid.

Wheeler said: "It is disappointing that this tie could happen. The majority of fans do not want to play MK Dons in any competition and I personally cannot get excited about the match.

"The match would not be about football rivalry in the normal sense of word, more about the fact MK Dons stole something from us. There is much more at stake than a result.

"We had to start again as a club and they continually rubbed our noses in it by carrying the name Dons."

He added: "It must also be embarrassing for them. It just highlights how a club like AFC Wimbledon with the right support, hard work, commitment and passion, can grow into a professional outfit.

"Whereas, MK Dons stole Wimbledon's league place, have failed to develop their own identity, by dropping the 'Dons', in Milton Keynes and attract the frenzy of local support that Pete Winkelman craves and promised."

In a statement on the WISA website, Wheeler says: "WISA hopes that the fixture will not have to happen. WISA will issue a further statement if the replays require that the fixture is fulfilled, after consultation with AFC Wimbledon and supporters."

MK Dons chairman Pete Winkelman said: “This could potentially be a fantastic tie in the FA Cup and no doubt one that the whole of the football world will be watching."

According to Wheeler, talk of a boycott by travelling fans is premature.

"Some fans have vowed never to go to a game at MK Dons, and I understand that.

"Others will want to go to support the team, and again, I understand too.

"But there are a larger portion of fans who are in the middle ground and I think the question of a boycott goes ahead or not will depend on this middle ground."

He added:"There is another question to consider in terms of why should we go to MK Dons and give money to a club that has stolen from us?"

Comments (33)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

1:16pm Mon 5 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

I see Wheeler is still peddling his lies about AFC(not in)Wimbledon. AFC did NOT start life "at the bottom of the football pyramid", i.e. Level 24, but entered the pyramid at Level 9 at the expense of another club. MK Dons, however, who were, of course, Wimbledon FC renamed, remained in the same position as before the re-naming, and took no one's place.
I see Wheeler is still peddling his lies about AFC(not in)Wimbledon. AFC did NOT start life "at the bottom of the football pyramid", i.e. Level 24, but entered the pyramid at Level 9 at the expense of another club. MK Dons, however, who were, of course, Wimbledon FC renamed, remained in the same position as before the re-naming, and took no one's place. stony bloke
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Mon 5 Nov 12

TheTruthTeller says...

Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly.

Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL?

I think you'll struggle...
Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly. Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL? I think you'll struggle... TheTruthTeller
  • Score: 0

5:24pm Mon 5 Nov 12

hartson says...

"Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?"
"Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?" hartson
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Mon 5 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

hartson wrote:
"Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?"
I'm sorry, you obviously haven't any knowledge of Milton Keynes, the new town. When Milton Keynes was formed in 1967 it took in all the surrounding towns and villages within the designated area. Among the towns included were Wolverton, Stony Stratford and Bletchley, and among the numerous villages was Milton Keynes Village, after which the new town took it's name. The MK Dons stadium is in the area of Denbigh, which is near to Bletchley, but is nevertheless within the new town of Milton Keynes. I hope that clears things up.
[quote][p][bold]hartson[/bold] wrote: "Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?"[/p][/quote]I'm sorry, you obviously haven't any knowledge of Milton Keynes, the new town. When Milton Keynes was formed in 1967 it took in all the surrounding towns and villages within the designated area. Among the towns included were Wolverton, Stony Stratford and Bletchley, and among the numerous villages was Milton Keynes Village, after which the new town took it's name. The MK Dons stadium is in the area of Denbigh, which is near to Bletchley, but is nevertheless within the new town of Milton Keynes. I hope that clears things up. stony bloke
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Mon 5 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

TheTruthTeller wrote:
Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly.

Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL?

I think you'll struggle...
I stand corrected. You are quite right. In 2002 the Combined Counties League increased its membership by two clubs, one of which had been transferred across at a similar level, from the Middlesex County League, whilst the other, AFC Wimbledon joined the league from nowhere. The fact remains that contrary to the story constantly being put out by AFC loyalists, The club did not start at the bottom of the league pyramid (i.e. Level 24) but more than half way up at Level 9. The same cannot be applied to MK Dons situation. At the beginning of the 2002/3 season Wimbledon FC were in the Championship and playing at Selhurst Park. In September of that season Wimbledon FC moved to Milton Keynes, of their own volition. Still in the Championship, remember. Towards the end of the season the club went into administration and a bid was accepted from InterMK to take over the club. At the end of the season Wimbledon FC were relegated to League One. In July 2004 the club's name was changed to Milton Keynes Dons. Same team, same management, same supporters, same league position. A rose by any other name etc...
[quote][p][bold]TheTruthTeller[/bold] wrote: Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly. Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL? I think you'll struggle...[/p][/quote]I stand corrected. You are quite right. In 2002 the Combined Counties League increased its membership by two clubs, one of which had been transferred across at a similar level, from the Middlesex County League, whilst the other, AFC Wimbledon joined the league from nowhere. The fact remains that contrary to the story constantly being put out by AFC loyalists, The club did not start at the bottom of the league pyramid (i.e. Level 24) but more than half way up at Level 9. The same cannot be applied to MK Dons situation. At the beginning of the 2002/3 season Wimbledon FC were in the Championship and playing at Selhurst Park. In September of that season Wimbledon FC moved to Milton Keynes, of their own volition. Still in the Championship, remember. Towards the end of the season the club went into administration and a bid was accepted from InterMK to take over the club. At the end of the season Wimbledon FC were relegated to League One. In July 2004 the club's name was changed to Milton Keynes Dons. Same team, same management, same supporters, same league position. A rose by any other name etc... stony bloke
  • Score: 0

6:49pm Mon 5 Nov 12

franklymydear says...

Sorry to interrupt you two, but I just wanted to comment on Wheeler's remark that a large portion of fans are in this "middle ground". I'd love to know where he got this idea from. I can't believe there are really any Wimbledon fans seriously considering going to a game in Milton Keynes after everything we put into the protests and starting all over again in the Combined Counties League. That took a lot out of us as a fanbase over the last eleven years - some quit their jobs at WFC in protest when Koppel first announced plans to relocate (without consulting the club's supporters, remember), while others put so much into getting AFCW up and running again following the FA's 'independent' decision in May 2002 that their home relationships were pretty much non-existent - but we really can't have gone that soft? By attending a game in Milton Keynes you are approving of that club's existence and handing your hard-earned money over to a group of people who ripped a 114-year-old club from its local community. I've no doubt that the two clubs will meet at some point in the near future, but hopefully Wimbledon fans will never let this become the "rivalry" Pete Winkelman so desperately seems to want and as a fanbase we can boycott any fixture where Milton Keynes FC would receive a share of the gate receipts. Don't legitimise franchising in football.
Sorry to interrupt you two, but I just wanted to comment on Wheeler's remark that a large portion of fans are in this "middle ground". I'd love to know where he got this idea from. I can't believe there are really any Wimbledon fans seriously considering going to a game in Milton Keynes after everything we put into the protests and starting all over again in the Combined Counties League. That took a lot out of us as a fanbase over the last eleven years - some quit their jobs at WFC in protest when Koppel first announced plans to relocate (without consulting the club's supporters, remember), while others put so much into getting AFCW up and running again following the FA's 'independent' decision in May 2002 that their home relationships were pretty much non-existent - but we really can't have gone that soft? By attending a game in Milton Keynes you are approving of that club's existence and handing your hard-earned money over to a group of people who ripped a 114-year-old club from its local community. I've no doubt that the two clubs will meet at some point in the near future, but hopefully Wimbledon fans will never let this become the "rivalry" Pete Winkelman so desperately seems to want and as a fanbase we can boycott any fixture where Milton Keynes FC would receive a share of the gate receipts. Don't legitimise franchising in football. franklymydear
  • Score: 0

7:12pm Mon 5 Nov 12

MK Fan says...

The vast majority of MK Dons fans desperately want this match to happen. Our fans have been bashed by you lot for 10 years and will be there in their numbers singing their hearts out.

But while our fans are united, your fans are clearly divided!

Surely you can't sit in our stadium after spending 10 years trying to persuade the fans of other clubs to stay away? What message would that send to your chums at FC United?

But are you prepared to let your players face a hostile MK Dons crowd on their own? What sort of support is that? And how bad would that look on national television.

Of course you could look for leadership from Simon Wheeler who thinks some will go, some won't and some will be in the middle ground. How long did that take you to work out Simon?

Dilemma!
The vast majority of MK Dons fans desperately want this match to happen. Our fans have been bashed by you lot for 10 years and will be there in their numbers singing their hearts out. But while our fans are united, your fans are clearly divided! Surely you can't sit in our stadium after spending 10 years trying to persuade the fans of other clubs to stay away? What message would that send to your chums at FC United? But are you prepared to let your players face a hostile MK Dons crowd on their own? What sort of support is that? And how bad would that look on national television. Of course you could look for leadership from Simon Wheeler who thinks some will go, some won't and some will be in the middle ground. How long did that take you to work out Simon? Dilemma! MK Fan
  • Score: 0

7:48pm Mon 5 Nov 12

franklymydear says...

stony bloke wrote:
TheTruthTeller wrote:
Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly.

Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL?

I think you'll struggle...
I stand corrected. You are quite right. In 2002 the Combined Counties League increased its membership by two clubs, one of which had been transferred across at a similar level, from the Middlesex County League, whilst the other, AFC Wimbledon joined the league from nowhere. The fact remains that contrary to the story constantly being put out by AFC loyalists, The club did not start at the bottom of the league pyramid (i.e. Level 24) but more than half way up at Level 9. The same cannot be applied to MK Dons situation. At the beginning of the 2002/3 season Wimbledon FC were in the Championship and playing at Selhurst Park. In September of that season Wimbledon FC moved to Milton Keynes, of their own volition. Still in the Championship, remember. Towards the end of the season the club went into administration and a bid was accepted from InterMK to take over the club. At the end of the season Wimbledon FC were relegated to League One. In July 2004 the club's name was changed to Milton Keynes Dons. Same team, same management, same supporters, same league position. A rose by any other name etc...
Stony Bloke, you're not seriously comparing starting at level nine of the pyramid, where teams often play in front of less than fifty supporters at grounds that are more or less just pitches with a rope around them, with being elevated to the third rung and playing teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Hull City, are you? I guess you're still upset about Guernsey FC starting in the CCL First Division too? So AFC Wimbledon should've started in the Mid-Sussex League Eleventh Division? I think we might have had a bit of trouble meeting the requirements to play in that league..
[quote][p][bold]stony bloke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheTruthTeller[/bold] wrote: Stony bloke - try to tell the truth when you post publicly. Can you name the club who supposedly lost their place to us in the CCL? I think you'll struggle...[/p][/quote]I stand corrected. You are quite right. In 2002 the Combined Counties League increased its membership by two clubs, one of which had been transferred across at a similar level, from the Middlesex County League, whilst the other, AFC Wimbledon joined the league from nowhere. The fact remains that contrary to the story constantly being put out by AFC loyalists, The club did not start at the bottom of the league pyramid (i.e. Level 24) but more than half way up at Level 9. The same cannot be applied to MK Dons situation. At the beginning of the 2002/3 season Wimbledon FC were in the Championship and playing at Selhurst Park. In September of that season Wimbledon FC moved to Milton Keynes, of their own volition. Still in the Championship, remember. Towards the end of the season the club went into administration and a bid was accepted from InterMK to take over the club. At the end of the season Wimbledon FC were relegated to League One. In July 2004 the club's name was changed to Milton Keynes Dons. Same team, same management, same supporters, same league position. A rose by any other name etc...[/p][/quote]Stony Bloke, you're not seriously comparing starting at level nine of the pyramid, where teams often play in front of less than fifty supporters at grounds that are more or less just pitches with a rope around them, with being elevated to the third rung and playing teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Hull City, are you? I guess you're still upset about Guernsey FC starting in the CCL First Division too? So AFC Wimbledon should've started in the Mid-Sussex League Eleventh Division? I think we might have had a bit of trouble meeting the requirements to play in that league.. franklymydear
  • Score: 0

7:53pm Mon 5 Nov 12

P Mitchell says...

A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes?

That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind.

This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from.

Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it.

However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode.

What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making.

It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name.

It won't happen, but the opportunity exists.
A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes? That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind. This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from. Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it. However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode. What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making. It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name. It won't happen, but the opportunity exists. P Mitchell
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Tue 6 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

AFC fans, there's a simple answer to this - if you dislike MK Dons so much, don't come to the game. We don't want or need your money.
If this game goes ahead, I doubt a single one of you will turn up at our ground. If the game was being held at your ground, I wouldn't come because I wouldn't want to pay money to your club.
The rift will always exist, we don't like you and you don't like us.
Stop harping on that we stole from you and blah blah blah. We don't want to hear it and to be honest are getting a bit bored of it.
As mentioned, if you don't like it - then don't come.
AFC fans, there's a simple answer to this - if you dislike MK Dons so much, don't come to the game. We don't want or need your money. If this game goes ahead, I doubt a single one of you will turn up at our ground. If the game was being held at your ground, I wouldn't come because I wouldn't want to pay money to your club. The rift will always exist, we don't like you and you don't like us. Stop harping on that we stole from you and blah blah blah. We don't want to hear it and to be honest are getting a bit bored of it. As mentioned, if you don't like it - then don't come. MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

12:55pm Tue 6 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

Oh and we are not dropping the Dons. Perhaps you should change the name to AFC Kingston as that's where you actually play!?
Oh and we are not dropping the Dons. Perhaps you should change the name to AFC Kingston as that's where you actually play!? MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Prince Philip of Greece says...

hartson wrote:
"Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?"
Hartson, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Wimbledon or in the larger Wimbledon central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a town called Kingston?

God speed back to Merton.
[quote][p][bold]hartson[/bold] wrote: "Stoney Bloke, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Milton Keynes or in the larger Milton Keynes central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a suburb near Bletchley?"[/p][/quote]Hartson, Maybe you can help me? I seem unable to find a football club that plays IN either the village of Wimbledon or in the larger Wimbledon central district. could you be refering to the club that plays some 3 miles away ia a town called Kingston? God speed back to Merton. Prince Philip of Greece
  • Score: 0

1:00pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Prince Philip of Greece says...

MKDonsandproud wrote:
Oh and we are not dropping the Dons. Perhaps you should change the name to AFC Kingston as that's where you actually play!?
I despise MK Dons but - you have to admit - he has a point!
[quote][p][bold]MKDonsandproud[/bold] wrote: Oh and we are not dropping the Dons. Perhaps you should change the name to AFC Kingston as that's where you actually play!?[/p][/quote]I despise MK Dons but - you have to admit - he has a point! Prince Philip of Greece
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Tue 6 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

No Prince Philip of Greece, he doesn't. Don't you think after all this time that AFC would have found something else to harp on about!?

Bring on the match is all I can say. When MK Dons beat AFC it might actually hush all the rubbish that flies around from the AFC camp. I am proud to be an MK Dons fan and always will be.
No Prince Philip of Greece, he doesn't. Don't you think after all this time that AFC would have found something else to harp on about!? Bring on the match is all I can say. When MK Dons beat AFC it might actually hush all the rubbish that flies around from the AFC camp. I am proud to be an MK Dons fan and always will be. MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Tue 6 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons!
And just for reference, I am a female supporter.
Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons! And just for reference, I am a female supporter. MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

1:29pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Prince Philip of Greece says...

MKDonsandproud wrote:
Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons!
And just for reference, I am a female supporter.
To be honest, not really sticking up for either club...

I share the general disgust felt towards MK Dons as a franchise club.

And I would only support AFCW if they played somewhere in Merton.
[quote][p][bold]MKDonsandproud[/bold] wrote: Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons! And just for reference, I am a female supporter.[/p][/quote]To be honest, not really sticking up for either club... I share the general disgust felt towards MK Dons as a franchise club. And I would only support AFCW if they played somewhere in Merton. Prince Philip of Greece
  • Score: 0

2:59pm Tue 6 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

Prince Philip of Greece wrote:
MKDonsandproud wrote:
Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons!
And just for reference, I am a female supporter.
To be honest, not really sticking up for either club...

I share the general disgust felt towards MK Dons as a franchise club.

And I would only support AFCW if they played somewhere in Merton.
I've don't understood this so called 'disgust' that you and others feel towards MK Dons. Who are you actually disgusted with? Presumably you had nothing against Milton Keynes and its people pre-2002? And as it was Wimbledon FC who made the decision to move to Milton Keynes, rightly or wrongly, I presume you feel disgust towards them for making the move. All this of course is before Wimbledon went into administration and were rescued by InterMK, which, had that not happened, Wimbledon FC would have been no more. Since the original people involved in the move, such as the club's owners, Merton Council, and the FA are no longer involved with the club, who are you still disgusted with? The players, who had no choice in the matter? Or MKDons present supporters who also had no influence on the move. I think you ought to carefully consider this point, because I seriously think you are entering 'clutching at straws' territory here.
[quote][p][bold]Prince Philip of Greece[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MKDonsandproud[/bold] wrote: Prince Philip I'm not sure if I misread your quote - I'm sorry if I have! I think you were actually sticking up for MK Dons! And just for reference, I am a female supporter.[/p][/quote]To be honest, not really sticking up for either club... I share the general disgust felt towards MK Dons as a franchise club. And I would only support AFCW if they played somewhere in Merton.[/p][/quote]I've don't understood this so called 'disgust' that you and others feel towards MK Dons. Who are you actually disgusted with? Presumably you had nothing against Milton Keynes and its people pre-2002? And as it was Wimbledon FC who made the decision to move to Milton Keynes, rightly or wrongly, I presume you feel disgust towards them for making the move. All this of course is before Wimbledon went into administration and were rescued by InterMK, which, had that not happened, Wimbledon FC would have been no more. Since the original people involved in the move, such as the club's owners, Merton Council, and the FA are no longer involved with the club, who are you still disgusted with? The players, who had no choice in the matter? Or MKDons present supporters who also had no influence on the move. I think you ought to carefully consider this point, because I seriously think you are entering 'clutching at straws' territory here. stony bloke
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Tue 6 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

P Mitchell wrote:
A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes?

That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind.

This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from.

Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it.

However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode.

What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making.

It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name.

It won't happen, but the opportunity exists.
Two points here.
1. Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then.
2. There is no way the 'Dons' will be dropped from the name. To the group of fans who followed their club up the M1 it is still Wimbledon to them, and the Dons in the name bears tribute to that. That link to their past will not be severed. And quite rightly too.
[quote][p][bold]P Mitchell[/bold] wrote: A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes? That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind. This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from. Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it. However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode. What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making. It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name. It won't happen, but the opportunity exists.[/p][/quote]Two points here. 1. Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then. 2. There is no way the 'Dons' will be dropped from the name. To the group of fans who followed their club up the M1 it is still Wimbledon to them, and the Dons in the name bears tribute to that. That link to their past will not be severed. And quite rightly too. stony bloke
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Tue 6 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

Thank you for the comment Stony Bloke!
Thank you for the comment Stony Bloke! MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Tue 6 Nov 12

franklymydear says...

Stony Bloke says...
"Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then."

I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal.
Stony Bloke says... "Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then." I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal. franklymydear
  • Score: 0

9:30pm Tue 6 Nov 12

stony bloke says...

franklymydear wrote:
Stony Bloke says...
"Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then."

I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal.
For someone who has obviously done a little research on the subject you seem to be very selective on the facts you choose to share, which I suppose is understandable when you have a particular bias towards your argument.
Let me just fill in the gaps for you, to give a more balanced argument.
1. Pete Winkelmen's involvement. As you quite rightly say, Pete Winkelman was keen on bringing a professional football club to Milton Keynes, as part of a multi use retail development. Firstly, if you know anything about the modern game, you will know that this is the only realistic way to sustain a new football stadium. Milton Keynes is not unique in this respect if you care to look around. Why, even our friends AFC Wimbledon are looking into it now as they realise it's the only way to go. As for your assertion that including a football stadium in the mix bypasses planning rules, you've got me there.
Secondly, Pete Winkelman has made it quite clear that he was not in the business of dragging a football club to Milton Keynes against its will. He was only interested in talking to a club who were in severe difficulties and would welcome the move to Milton Keynes as a last resort, which explains why a number of discussions with other clubs broke down. Wimbledon FC was the only club, at the time which fitted the criteria.
2. Wimbledon FC's involvement. As I'm sure you must be aware, Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. You refer to the local club Milton Keynes City FC (1974-1985 in its first incarnation). In 1979, Ron Noades, chairman of Wimbledon FC, entered talks with the Milton Keynes Development Corporation about the possibility of moving the club to Milton Keynes. At this time Noades purchased Milton Keynes City FC and Wimbledon directors including Sam Hammam, Bernie Coleman and Jimmy Rose became Milton Keynes City directors on top of their roles at Wimbledon. The plan was to merge the two clubs to produce a club using Wimbledon's place in the Football League under the Milton Keynes FC name. Sound familiar? There were also more surreptitious reasons for buying the club which are not relevant here. Needless to say the scheme fell through and the club was sold on. The club finally folded in 1985. Then, of course, in 1997, there was the proposal by Sam Hammam to move the club to Dublin of all places. Can't imagine what the supporters would have thought of that. Luckily for the fans the Football Association of Ireland blocked the move, much to the Norwegian owners' dismay. Finally in 2000, Pete Winkelman approached Charles Koppel with his proposal for a new stadium in Milton Keynes. At a board meeting in July 2001 it was resolved that the club should pursue the Milton Keynes option, indeed most of the board members felt the club had no choice. In a letter of 2nd August 2001 to the Chief Executive of the Football League at the time, Charles Koppel wrote “The move to Milton Keynes represents the only realistic solution for Wimbledon Football Club, which is immediate and welcoming”.
As you know, Wimbledon FC's initial application to the Football League in August 2001 was unanimously rejected. Quite right too, any reasonable person would argue. But not so, Wimbledon FC. They appealed against the decision and in May 2002 an Independent Commission came to a decision, approving the move with the words, “Our decision is that, in light of its exceptional circumstances, WFC should be given approval to relocate to Milton Keynes."
In the Commission’s report they stated:
“We do not believe, with all due respect, that the Club’s links with the community around the Plough Lane site or in Merton are so profound, or the roots go so deep, that they will not survive a necessary transplant to ensure WFC’s survival. What is unusual about WFC fans is that they do not seem to come from a single geographical area. Indeed, the vast majority of WFC fans do not live in Merton or Wimbledon. 20% of current season ticket holders live in Merton and 10% in Wimbledon. We do not accept that WFC will die if the Club relocates. The Club has been in Croydon for 11 years (almost half its Football League history). There is no stadium which is a focus for the community in Merton, and has not been for 11 years.”
I hope the neutral minded readers on here will appreciate that there is a lot more to this story than the version you present here. All the above can be verified by the actual documentation issued at the time and can be viewed at the MK Dons Supporters Association website, http://www.mkdsa.co.
uk/index.php/dons-hi
story/facts-of-the-m
ove
[quote][p][bold]franklymydear[/bold] wrote: Stony Bloke says... "Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then." I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal.[/p][/quote]For someone who has obviously done a little research on the subject you seem to be very selective on the facts you choose to share, which I suppose is understandable when you have a particular bias towards your argument. Let me just fill in the gaps for you, to give a more balanced argument. 1. Pete Winkelmen's involvement. As you quite rightly say, Pete Winkelman was keen on bringing a professional football club to Milton Keynes, as part of a multi use retail development. Firstly, if you know anything about the modern game, you will know that this is the only realistic way to sustain a new football stadium. Milton Keynes is not unique in this respect if you care to look around. Why, even our friends AFC Wimbledon are looking into it now as they realise it's the only way to go. As for your assertion that including a football stadium in the mix bypasses planning rules, you've got me there. Secondly, Pete Winkelman has made it quite clear that he was not in the business of dragging a football club to Milton Keynes against its will. He was only interested in talking to a club who were in severe difficulties and would welcome the move to Milton Keynes as a last resort, which explains why a number of discussions with other clubs broke down. Wimbledon FC was the only club, at the time which fitted the criteria. 2. Wimbledon FC's involvement. As I'm sure you must be aware, Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. You refer to the local club Milton Keynes City FC (1974-1985 in its first incarnation). In 1979, Ron Noades, chairman of Wimbledon FC, entered talks with the Milton Keynes Development Corporation about the possibility of moving the club to Milton Keynes. At this time Noades purchased Milton Keynes City FC and Wimbledon directors including Sam Hammam, Bernie Coleman and Jimmy Rose became Milton Keynes City directors on top of their roles at Wimbledon. The plan was to merge the two clubs to produce a club using Wimbledon's place in the Football League under the Milton Keynes FC name. Sound familiar? There were also more surreptitious reasons for buying the club which are not relevant here. Needless to say the scheme fell through and the club was sold on. The club finally folded in 1985. Then, of course, in 1997, there was the proposal by Sam Hammam to move the club to Dublin of all places. Can't imagine what the supporters would have thought of that. Luckily for the fans the Football Association of Ireland blocked the move, much to the Norwegian owners' dismay. Finally in 2000, Pete Winkelman approached Charles Koppel with his proposal for a new stadium in Milton Keynes. At a board meeting in July 2001 it was resolved that the club should pursue the Milton Keynes option, indeed most of the board members felt the club had no choice. In a letter of 2nd August 2001 to the Chief Executive of the Football League at the time, Charles Koppel wrote “The move to Milton Keynes represents the only realistic solution for Wimbledon Football Club, which is immediate and welcoming”. As you know, Wimbledon FC's initial application to the Football League in August 2001 was unanimously rejected. Quite right too, any reasonable person would argue. But not so, Wimbledon FC. They appealed against the decision and in May 2002 an Independent Commission came to a decision, approving the move with the words, “Our decision is that, in light of its exceptional circumstances, WFC should be given approval to relocate to Milton Keynes." In the Commission’s report they stated: “We do not believe, with all due respect, that the Club’s links with the community around the Plough Lane site or in Merton are so profound, or the roots go so deep, that they will not survive a necessary transplant to ensure WFC’s survival. What is unusual about WFC fans is that they do not seem to come from a single geographical area. Indeed, the vast majority of WFC fans do not live in Merton or Wimbledon. 20% of current season ticket holders live in Merton and 10% in Wimbledon. We do not accept that WFC will die if the Club relocates. The Club has been in Croydon for 11 years (almost half its Football League history). There is no stadium which is a focus for the community in Merton, and has not been for 11 years.” I hope the neutral minded readers on here will appreciate that there is a lot more to this story than the version you present here. All the above can be verified by the actual documentation issued at the time and can be viewed at the MK Dons Supporters Association website, http://www.mkdsa.co. uk/index.php/dons-hi story/facts-of-the-m ove stony bloke
  • Score: 0

12:44am Thu 8 Nov 12

QPR4Me says...

At the end of the day, the old Wimbledon FC, who I used to visit in the Southern League days when QPR were away, were shafted by Merton Borough Council, who failed to help them get a new ground, the local nimbys who didn't want either a football team, or a supermarket nearby, and the fans who didn't do enough to force the council to help the club. Winkleman (spelling??) stepped in and took advantage of the fact that had WFC stayed at Selhurst, the club would've ceased to exist. Charlton fans managed to force the local council to assist their return to the Valley. How come no-one (fans or council) did enough to help WFC do the same?
For crying out loud, the new club is only Wimbledon in name only, Merton still haven't given you a home. You may as well be called Occupy Kingston.
Sorry if this upsets people, that is not my intention, however, reality has to take precedence over romanticism. What has happened has happened, history cannot be changed. Live with it and move on.
At the end of the day, the old Wimbledon FC, who I used to visit in the Southern League days when QPR were away, were shafted by Merton Borough Council, who failed to help them get a new ground, the local nimbys who didn't want either a football team, or a supermarket nearby, and the fans who didn't do enough to force the council to help the club. Winkleman (spelling??) stepped in and took advantage of the fact that had WFC stayed at Selhurst, the club would've ceased to exist. Charlton fans managed to force the local council to assist their return to the Valley. How come no-one (fans or council) did enough to help WFC do the same? For crying out loud, the new club is only Wimbledon in name only, Merton still haven't given you a home. You may as well be called Occupy Kingston. Sorry if this upsets people, that is not my intention, however, reality has to take precedence over romanticism. What has happened has happened, history cannot be changed. Live with it and move on. QPR4Me
  • Score: 0

10:53am Thu 8 Nov 12

NickPalmer says...

I don't think we will beat York anyway, its relegation for us this year :(
I don't think we will beat York anyway, its relegation for us this year :( NickPalmer
  • Score: 0

8:01pm Fri 9 Nov 12

cheshire_womble says...

stony bloke wrote:
franklymydear wrote:
Stony Bloke says...
"Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then."

I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal.
For someone who has obviously done a little research on the subject you seem to be very selective on the facts you choose to share, which I suppose is understandable when you have a particular bias towards your argument.
Let me just fill in the gaps for you, to give a more balanced argument.
1. Pete Winkelmen's involvement. As you quite rightly say, Pete Winkelman was keen on bringing a professional football club to Milton Keynes, as part of a multi use retail development. Firstly, if you know anything about the modern game, you will know that this is the only realistic way to sustain a new football stadium. Milton Keynes is not unique in this respect if you care to look around. Why, even our friends AFC Wimbledon are looking into it now as they realise it's the only way to go. As for your assertion that including a football stadium in the mix bypasses planning rules, you've got me there.
Secondly, Pete Winkelman has made it quite clear that he was not in the business of dragging a football club to Milton Keynes against its will. He was only interested in talking to a club who were in severe difficulties and would welcome the move to Milton Keynes as a last resort, which explains why a number of discussions with other clubs broke down. Wimbledon FC was the only club, at the time which fitted the criteria.
2. Wimbledon FC's involvement. As I'm sure you must be aware, Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. You refer to the local club Milton Keynes City FC (1974-1985 in its first incarnation). In 1979, Ron Noades, chairman of Wimbledon FC, entered talks with the Milton Keynes Development Corporation about the possibility of moving the club to Milton Keynes. At this time Noades purchased Milton Keynes City FC and Wimbledon directors including Sam Hammam, Bernie Coleman and Jimmy Rose became Milton Keynes City directors on top of their roles at Wimbledon. The plan was to merge the two clubs to produce a club using Wimbledon's place in the Football League under the Milton Keynes FC name. Sound familiar? There were also more surreptitious reasons for buying the club which are not relevant here. Needless to say the scheme fell through and the club was sold on. The club finally folded in 1985. Then, of course, in 1997, there was the proposal by Sam Hammam to move the club to Dublin of all places. Can't imagine what the supporters would have thought of that. Luckily for the fans the Football Association of Ireland blocked the move, much to the Norwegian owners' dismay. Finally in 2000, Pete Winkelman approached Charles Koppel with his proposal for a new stadium in Milton Keynes. At a board meeting in July 2001 it was resolved that the club should pursue the Milton Keynes option, indeed most of the board members felt the club had no choice. In a letter of 2nd August 2001 to the Chief Executive of the Football League at the time, Charles Koppel wrote “The move to Milton Keynes represents the only realistic solution for Wimbledon Football Club, which is immediate and welcoming”.
As you know, Wimbledon FC's initial application to the Football League in August 2001 was unanimously rejected. Quite right too, any reasonable person would argue. But not so, Wimbledon FC. They appealed against the decision and in May 2002 an Independent Commission came to a decision, approving the move with the words, “Our decision is that, in light of its exceptional circumstances, WFC should be given approval to relocate to Milton Keynes."
In the Commission’s report they stated:
“We do not believe, with all due respect, that the Club’s links with the community around the Plough Lane site or in Merton are so profound, or the roots go so deep, that they will not survive a necessary transplant to ensure WFC’s survival. What is unusual about WFC fans is that they do not seem to come from a single geographical area. Indeed, the vast majority of WFC fans do not live in Merton or Wimbledon. 20% of current season ticket holders live in Merton and 10% in Wimbledon. We do not accept that WFC will die if the Club relocates. The Club has been in Croydon for 11 years (almost half its Football League history). There is no stadium which is a focus for the community in Merton, and has not been for 11 years.”
I hope the neutral minded readers on here will appreciate that there is a lot more to this story than the version you present here. All the above can be verified by the actual documentation issued at the time and can be viewed at the MK Dons Supporters Association website, http://www.mkdsa.co.

uk/index.php/dons-hi

story/facts-of-the-m

ove
Right, let us clear up a few things:
I'm sure you must be aware; Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. That’s funny; we were at Plough Lane till 1991. So we were actively trying to move away from a ground 12 years before playing there?
Location wise – No we do not play in Wimbledon, that is something we actively looking to rectify, you can’t just magic up a stadium, until then Kingston is about as close as viably possible we can be, you have to start somewhere. Grimsby play in Cleethorpes, a similarish distance from Grimsby that we are from Wimbledon, other clubs can move 4 or 5 miles and still be within the same conurbation. As I say Kingston is not ideal, but will do for now. As for enabling developments, yes clubs do use them, yes, if we get the greyhound stadium off the ground we will use other enterprises to help fund it, the big difference is we would do it to benefit our team, in our borough, not steal someone elses.
As has been highlighted earlier, Winkleman tried for some 30 years or so to obtain a league club, going back to 60’s, when Wimbledon FC were still non league, yet that is obviously too much like hard work for Winkleman.
AFC Wimbledon entered the pyramid system at Level 8, after 2 years in the CCL we got promoted to the Ryman League, which became level 8 with the introduction of the 2nd Conference tier. The clubs in the Combined Counties overwhelmingly voted us in, only 1 club voted against, they since admitted they were wrong. When you consider the number of teams who switched games to alternative venues to accommodate us, and we shattered most clubs attendance records, and the results we achieved suggested the correct entry point. FC United of Manchester started 1 level below, Chester FC, 1 level above, Aldershot started somewhere similar. Also consider that most leagues below the CCL level are not senior leagues.
Whilst I personally will not set foot in MKd stadium, I know some of our fans have and will. I don’t like it, but that is their decision, and I will not condemn or criticise them, and they understand my decision to not go. It will not be something that tears our club apart, neither camp will allow it.
It always makes me laugh that MK customers claim the move ‘saved the club’. Yes, the club was in a financial mess, a supporters group tried to buy the club, but were blocked from doing so by the board. The so-called saviours changed the clubs name, colours, badge, location, relinquished its history, only keeping the league share it held. How is that saving the club? I’ll go and buy a car, I will replace the doors, the engine, the chassis, the wheels, the tyres, the seats, - have I got the same car? No, I’d say the same principle applies.
Some have the nerve to accuse us of being deserters on the basis that for about 14 months Wimbledon FC co-existed in South London alongside AFC Wimbledon. Yes, but the decision had already been made to allow the franchise to exist, was Winkleman really going to say, ‘I can now move the club, but actually I won’t’?, no he lauded the decision. The decision itself? Rejected unanimously by the Football League, surely that should be binding, you can’t get more clear cut, yet an appeal was lodged, an independent 3 man commission appointed by the FA voted 2-1 to allow the move – 2 votes for, 9 against, that’s great democracy I don’t think.

MK customers are trying to say it would be just another game? So why did Karl Robinson say he did a jig when he heard of the potential tie up? The reason we are more vociferous about the potential game is we don’t want to play them. If someone robs your house, you make a fuss, the thief keeps quiet.
[quote][p][bold]stony bloke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]franklymydear[/bold] wrote: Stony Bloke says... "Pete Winkelman has nothing to apologise for. He did not instigate Wimbledon FC's move to MK. Remember, Wimbledon's first application to move to MK was turned down by the FA but they pressed on anyway and got their wish on appeal. And as stated earlier, had Pete Winkelman, through InterMK, not rescued WFC from administration in 2004, the club would have folded there and then." I'm sorry, you're very wrong there. Winkelman, as leader of the Milton Keynes Stadium Consortium, had been trying to bring a professional club to the town long before 2004. Wimbledon FC's relocation was essentially a way to enable a development that would include retail stores, hotels and a conference centre. The inclusion of a football stadium appeared to be a way to bypass planning rules. Rather than invite the existing non-league side Milton Keynes City FC on board, the consortium chose to import a Football League side to play in the stadium. After failing to secure a deal with Luton, Barnet, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon (initially) or Queens Park Rangers, Winkelman approached WFC once again and, after a year of protest and the club owners having the move turned down by the Football League and the FA, the club finally got the go ahead to relocate following a meeting of an 'independent' commission. Don't bury your head in the sand, pal.[/p][/quote]For someone who has obviously done a little research on the subject you seem to be very selective on the facts you choose to share, which I suppose is understandable when you have a particular bias towards your argument. Let me just fill in the gaps for you, to give a more balanced argument. 1. Pete Winkelmen's involvement. As you quite rightly say, Pete Winkelman was keen on bringing a professional football club to Milton Keynes, as part of a multi use retail development. Firstly, if you know anything about the modern game, you will know that this is the only realistic way to sustain a new football stadium. Milton Keynes is not unique in this respect if you care to look around. Why, even our friends AFC Wimbledon are looking into it now as they realise it's the only way to go. As for your assertion that including a football stadium in the mix bypasses planning rules, you've got me there. Secondly, Pete Winkelman has made it quite clear that he was not in the business of dragging a football club to Milton Keynes against its will. He was only interested in talking to a club who were in severe difficulties and would welcome the move to Milton Keynes as a last resort, which explains why a number of discussions with other clubs broke down. Wimbledon FC was the only club, at the time which fitted the criteria. 2. Wimbledon FC's involvement. As I'm sure you must be aware, Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. You refer to the local club Milton Keynes City FC (1974-1985 in its first incarnation). In 1979, Ron Noades, chairman of Wimbledon FC, entered talks with the Milton Keynes Development Corporation about the possibility of moving the club to Milton Keynes. At this time Noades purchased Milton Keynes City FC and Wimbledon directors including Sam Hammam, Bernie Coleman and Jimmy Rose became Milton Keynes City directors on top of their roles at Wimbledon. The plan was to merge the two clubs to produce a club using Wimbledon's place in the Football League under the Milton Keynes FC name. Sound familiar? There were also more surreptitious reasons for buying the club which are not relevant here. Needless to say the scheme fell through and the club was sold on. The club finally folded in 1985. Then, of course, in 1997, there was the proposal by Sam Hammam to move the club to Dublin of all places. Can't imagine what the supporters would have thought of that. Luckily for the fans the Football Association of Ireland blocked the move, much to the Norwegian owners' dismay. Finally in 2000, Pete Winkelman approached Charles Koppel with his proposal for a new stadium in Milton Keynes. At a board meeting in July 2001 it was resolved that the club should pursue the Milton Keynes option, indeed most of the board members felt the club had no choice. In a letter of 2nd August 2001 to the Chief Executive of the Football League at the time, Charles Koppel wrote “The move to Milton Keynes represents the only realistic solution for Wimbledon Football Club, which is immediate and welcoming”. As you know, Wimbledon FC's initial application to the Football League in August 2001 was unanimously rejected. Quite right too, any reasonable person would argue. But not so, Wimbledon FC. They appealed against the decision and in May 2002 an Independent Commission came to a decision, approving the move with the words, “Our decision is that, in light of its exceptional circumstances, WFC should be given approval to relocate to Milton Keynes." In the Commission’s report they stated: “We do not believe, with all due respect, that the Club’s links with the community around the Plough Lane site or in Merton are so profound, or the roots go so deep, that they will not survive a necessary transplant to ensure WFC’s survival. What is unusual about WFC fans is that they do not seem to come from a single geographical area. Indeed, the vast majority of WFC fans do not live in Merton or Wimbledon. 20% of current season ticket holders live in Merton and 10% in Wimbledon. We do not accept that WFC will die if the Club relocates. The Club has been in Croydon for 11 years (almost half its Football League history). There is no stadium which is a focus for the community in Merton, and has not been for 11 years.” I hope the neutral minded readers on here will appreciate that there is a lot more to this story than the version you present here. All the above can be verified by the actual documentation issued at the time and can be viewed at the MK Dons Supporters Association website, http://www.mkdsa.co. uk/index.php/dons-hi story/facts-of-the-m ove[/p][/quote]Right, let us clear up a few things: I'm sure you must be aware; Wimbledon FC had been actively looking to move away from Selhurst Park from as far back as 1979. That’s funny; we were at Plough Lane till 1991. So we were actively trying to move away from a ground 12 years before playing there? Location wise – No we do not play in Wimbledon, that is something we actively looking to rectify, you can’t just magic up a stadium, until then Kingston is about as close as viably possible we can be, you have to start somewhere. Grimsby play in Cleethorpes, a similarish distance from Grimsby that we are from Wimbledon, other clubs can move 4 or 5 miles and still be within the same conurbation. As I say Kingston is not ideal, but will do for now. As for enabling developments, yes clubs do use them, yes, if we get the greyhound stadium off the ground we will use other enterprises to help fund it, the big difference is we would do it to benefit our team, in our borough, not steal someone elses. As has been highlighted earlier, Winkleman tried for some 30 years or so to obtain a league club, going back to 60’s, when Wimbledon FC were still non league, yet that is obviously too much like hard work for Winkleman. AFC Wimbledon entered the pyramid system at Level 8, after 2 years in the CCL we got promoted to the Ryman League, which became level 8 with the introduction of the 2nd Conference tier. The clubs in the Combined Counties overwhelmingly voted us in, only 1 club voted against, they since admitted they were wrong. When you consider the number of teams who switched games to alternative venues to accommodate us, and we shattered most clubs attendance records, and the results we achieved suggested the correct entry point. FC United of Manchester started 1 level below, Chester FC, 1 level above, Aldershot started somewhere similar. Also consider that most leagues below the CCL level are not senior leagues. Whilst I personally will not set foot in MKd stadium, I know some of our fans have and will. I don’t like it, but that is their decision, and I will not condemn or criticise them, and they understand my decision to not go. It will not be something that tears our club apart, neither camp will allow it. It always makes me laugh that MK customers claim the move ‘saved the club’. Yes, the club was in a financial mess, a supporters group tried to buy the club, but were blocked from doing so by the board. The so-called saviours changed the clubs name, colours, badge, location, relinquished its history, only keeping the league share it held. How is that saving the club? I’ll go and buy a car, I will replace the doors, the engine, the chassis, the wheels, the tyres, the seats, - have I got the same car? No, I’d say the same principle applies. Some have the nerve to accuse us of being deserters on the basis that for about 14 months Wimbledon FC co-existed in South London alongside AFC Wimbledon. Yes, but the decision had already been made to allow the franchise to exist, was Winkleman really going to say, ‘I can now move the club, but actually I won’t’?, no he lauded the decision. The decision itself? Rejected unanimously by the Football League, surely that should be binding, you can’t get more clear cut, yet an appeal was lodged, an independent 3 man commission appointed by the FA voted 2-1 to allow the move – 2 votes for, 9 against, that’s great democracy I don’t think. MK customers are trying to say it would be just another game? So why did Karl Robinson say he did a jig when he heard of the potential tie up? The reason we are more vociferous about the potential game is we don’t want to play them. If someone robs your house, you make a fuss, the thief keeps quiet. cheshire_womble
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Donsmk says...

Stop the drop the dons rubbish, Aberdeen are called the Dons do you want them to change their name to???
It's Merton councils fault that this all happened they refused to help find Wimbledon a ground that's why this has happen, point the finger at them, a shamble of a borough that I lived in for 28yrs that couldn't give 2hoots bout WFC.
Stop the drop the dons rubbish, Aberdeen are called the Dons do you want them to change their name to??? It's Merton councils fault that this all happened they refused to help find Wimbledon a ground that's why this has happen, point the finger at them, a shamble of a borough that I lived in for 28yrs that couldn't give 2hoots bout WFC. Donsmk
  • Score: 0

5:43am Sat 24 Nov 12

GlasgowRangers says...

Aberdeen eh, I've had a few moans at them in the past and another team called the Dons.I try to catch a game when visiting MK as what you find in MK is a mix of people who have settled from all parts of the UK and a lot who love the game of football. They moved to MK for various reasons but mainly for work. Milton Keynes is a clean thriving place to live and bring up children and these children are growing up kicking a ball around like we used to do. Many of the older people supported a team where they used to live and desperately missed the game. I notice that some comments from AFC Wimbledon fans slate MK for their fan base. The fan base is there with the hardcore fan supporting MK Dons each week . These fans are not new to football they know the score with what happened with AFC Wimbledon but just getting pretty fed up with all the inaccurate statements being made about MK and the whole thing with AFC Wimbledon. Nobody stole anything that is a fact so why continue saying it. Read everything again and again nothing was stolen. You are now a club in your own right and hopefully will go back to plough lane but still nothing changes its just a new ground you still got a history to develop just the same as MK are doing. Now before you get on your high horse Mr Franklymydear you need to start questioning yourself and other so called supporters at AFC Wimbledon about the way they conduct themselves. I am pleased that over 2600 fans are going to the game but they are making themselves look like a travelling circus. Some are coming with anti contamination suits on and bringing their own sandwiches etc etc etc now thats a real joke. These are not fans these are demonstrators and possibly troublemakers showing off for the cameras. I will be traveling down with a few friends to attend the game with family and will have my video camera on the day that's a must for all to see on YouTube but honestly very childish. Move on my friend we are not on this planet long and keep taking the blood pressure tablets
Aberdeen eh, I've had a few moans at them in the past and another team called the Dons.I try to catch a game when visiting MK as what you find in MK is a mix of people who have settled from all parts of the UK and a lot who love the game of football. They moved to MK for various reasons but mainly for work. Milton Keynes is a clean thriving place to live and bring up children and these children are growing up kicking a ball around like we used to do. Many of the older people supported a team where they used to live and desperately missed the game. I notice that some comments from AFC Wimbledon fans slate MK for their fan base. The fan base is there with the hardcore fan supporting MK Dons each week . These fans are not new to football they know the score with what happened with AFC Wimbledon but just getting pretty fed up with all the inaccurate statements being made about MK and the whole thing with AFC Wimbledon. Nobody stole anything that is a fact so why continue saying it. Read everything again and again nothing was stolen. You are now a club in your own right and hopefully will go back to plough lane but still nothing changes its just a new ground you still got a history to develop just the same as MK are doing. Now before you get on your high horse Mr Franklymydear you need to start questioning yourself and other so called supporters at AFC Wimbledon about the way they conduct themselves. I am pleased that over 2600 fans are going to the game but they are making themselves look like a travelling circus. Some are coming with anti contamination suits on and bringing their own sandwiches etc etc etc now thats a real joke. These are not fans these are demonstrators and possibly troublemakers showing off for the cameras. I will be traveling down with a few friends to attend the game with family and will have my video camera on the day that's a must for all to see on YouTube but honestly very childish. Move on my friend we are not on this planet long and keep taking the blood pressure tablets GlasgowRangers
  • Score: 0

11:11pm Sun 25 Nov 12

Donsmk says...

Stop whining on bout drop the Dons shhh n shup, I lived in Merton up till 2yrs ago n still went upto MK n I know there are few others still do n wear WFC stuff.
Another thing tell Aberdeen to drop the Dons from there nickname to then!!! Or tell the Spaniards as well, lets have a pre-season tournament called the Dons cup???
I drive the 131 bus n it will have a MK Dons scarf in it this week along with a Womble with a MK Dons shirt on it to reflect my routes.
Just play football n shhh Merton council n FA fault for everything
Stop whining on bout drop the Dons shhh n shup, I lived in Merton up till 2yrs ago n still went upto MK n I know there are few others still do n wear WFC stuff. Another thing tell Aberdeen to drop the Dons from there nickname to then!!! Or tell the Spaniards as well, lets have a pre-season tournament called the Dons cup??? I drive the 131 bus n it will have a MK Dons scarf in it this week along with a Womble with a MK Dons shirt on it to reflect my routes. Just play football n shhh Merton council n FA fault for everything Donsmk
  • Score: 0

1:08am Mon 26 Nov 12

cheshire_womble says...

yes, there are a number of clubs that use 'dons' as nickname, - wimbledon, hendon, aberdeen, - doncaster use donny, there is no problem with that. With milton keynes, it is the last remaining bastion (other than their ill-gotten league place) from the old wimbledon fc - they no longer use the badge, or colours of wimbledon, they dropped the history, returned the honours to merton/wimbledon (where they belong). the promise of keeping what is a tenuous link with sw19 community is both pointless and needless. Winkleman said recently that he was not proud of what happened! yeah right, if thats the case why did he try several clubs, several times until he got his way? and by keeping 'the dons', he continues to rub us loyal wimbledon fans noses in it. It is always eassier for the burgalar to tell the burgaled to get over it
yes, there are a number of clubs that use 'dons' as nickname, - wimbledon, hendon, aberdeen, - doncaster use donny, there is no problem with that. With milton keynes, it is the last remaining bastion (other than their ill-gotten league place) from the old wimbledon fc - they no longer use the badge, or colours of wimbledon, they dropped the history, returned the honours to merton/wimbledon (where they belong). the promise of keeping what is a tenuous link with sw19 community is both pointless and needless. Winkleman said recently that he was not proud of what happened! yeah right, if thats the case why did he try several clubs, several times until he got his way? and by keeping 'the dons', he continues to rub us loyal wimbledon fans noses in it. It is always eassier for the burgalar to tell the burgaled to get over it cheshire_womble
  • Score: 0

11:33pm Mon 26 Nov 12

SimonWheeler says...

Why would anyone ask Aberdeen to drop the nickname Dons?, they are called Dons because of the river Don that flows through their City.
Why would anyone ask Aberdeen to drop the nickname Dons?, they are called Dons because of the river Don that flows through their City. SimonWheeler
  • Score: 0

9:16am Thu 29 Nov 12

Donsmk says...

That's it avoid the real truth where anger should be at Merton council .
They don't care bout wfc or afc
That's it avoid the real truth where anger should be at Merton council . They don't care bout wfc or afc Donsmk
  • Score: 0

10:13am Thu 29 Nov 12

cheshire_womble says...

Why? We are working with Merton council to come home. No, Merton are not totally innocent, there are far for guilty culprits, especially hamman, who wrongly and knowingly blamed merton every inch of the way. But to see the monstrosities of winkleman and franchise lauding their ill gotten gains. Don't get me wrong, the Afc wimedon chapter of the last 10 years has been a fantastic one, its just the world be be a better place without franchistein, that's why we have anger. Go bust franchistein with a quick and very painfull death - that's what you deserve
Why? We are working with Merton council to come home. No, Merton are not totally innocent, there are far for guilty culprits, especially hamman, who wrongly and knowingly blamed merton every inch of the way. But to see the monstrosities of winkleman and franchise lauding their ill gotten gains. Don't get me wrong, the Afc wimedon chapter of the last 10 years has been a fantastic one, its just the world be be a better place without franchistein, that's why we have anger. Go bust franchistein with a quick and very painfull death - that's what you deserve cheshire_womble
  • Score: 0

11:47am Thu 29 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

P Mitchell wrote:
A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes? That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind. This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from. Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it. However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode. What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making. It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name. It won't happen, but the opportunity exists.
Excuse me, I am a MK fan and have been since the start. I do know what's gone in the past and I'm fully aware of it.
This whole thing needs to be put to bed. We, as a club, have never had such strict rules in place, I've drunk in the bar before the match with loads of away fans, but by all accounts, we're not allowed to do that with you lot.
We are not dropping the Dons from our name - just like you won't drop Wimbledon.
Don't you dare tar us all with the same brush.
[quote][p][bold]P Mitchell[/bold] wrote: A hostile crowd in Milton Keynes? That's really pushing the boundaries of realism considering most of those who attend games in Milton Keynes have little or no understanding of the chain of events that have brought both clubs to this stage. For those that do know, talk of hostility, whether there is going to be any from fans in Milton Keynes or not, isn't going to help in alleviating potential flashpoints where some fans will inevitably turn up with sinister motives in mind. This is never going to be a football match and all the talk from both sides about claiming moral victories by not attending, turning up but not going in or whatever won't change the fact that this is going to be an ugly circus sideshow that only the media will benefit from. Indeed, it is the continuous fanning of flames by the media that have kept much of the antagonism alive. If bloods spills at this tie, there will be a few seasoned hacks scrubbing their hands clean for their part in it. However, this potential tie could be used for the greater good of football and to start closing the whole sorry affair behind this entire episode. What better chance for Pete Winkelman to publicly apologise for the pain caused to Wimbledon fans by the relocation? When will there ever be a better time for Milton Keynes to forge their own identity than to cut their last ties with Wimbledon than to drop the Dons from their name? It may not be what fans in MK want but for the greater good of football, it ought to be a compromise worth making. It won't heal the rift but it will cut the ties. It will also show that football in Milton Keynes isn't just about Milton Keynes. To be a part of a wider community, Milton Keynes will never be able to let go of the past while they they cling to it for no real reason. If you can hand back your history, you can hand back a name. It won't happen, but the opportunity exists.[/p][/quote]Excuse me, I am a MK fan and have been since the start. I do know what's gone in the past and I'm fully aware of it. This whole thing needs to be put to bed. We, as a club, have never had such strict rules in place, I've drunk in the bar before the match with loads of away fans, but by all accounts, we're not allowed to do that with you lot. We are not dropping the Dons from our name - just like you won't drop Wimbledon. Don't you dare tar us all with the same brush. MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

11:50am Thu 29 Nov 12

MKDonsandproud says...

As a fan, I can't wait for Sunday's game. It may finally stop all of the rubbish that's being put around by AFC.
I'm sick of it, I'm looking forward to Sunday's game and can't wait for it. I wear my MK top with pride and do not take kindly to getting abuse from AFC fans because I'm in the 'wrong area!'.
If you're an AFC fan and all you can do is moan that we stole from you and blah blah blah, then don't come. Get over yourselves. It happened and nothing will change that.
As a fan, I can't wait for Sunday's game. It may finally stop all of the rubbish that's being put around by AFC. I'm sick of it, I'm looking forward to Sunday's game and can't wait for it. I wear my MK top with pride and do not take kindly to getting abuse from AFC fans because I'm in the 'wrong area!'. If you're an AFC fan and all you can do is moan that we stole from you and blah blah blah, then don't come. Get over yourselves. It happened and nothing will change that. MKDonsandproud
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

Get Adobe Flash player
About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree