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Drunken riverside behaviour causes concern

9:23am Friday 27th January 2012 in News

Cans: Youngsters drinking sparked complaints Cans: Youngsters drinking sparked complaints

A number of concerned people have spoken out about the drunken behaviour of teenagers along Twickenham embankment.

Youths have been spotted at the old pool site drinking alcohol with older men and acting in a disorderly manner, which has provoked residents to alert Richmond Council and Twickenham police.

Eel Pie Island resident Max Kersham said residents had taken to locking the gates themselves at night, after a council worker told him there were no resources to do so, although the council said that was not the case.

He said: “The worry is that if antisocial and underage drinking is not dealt with and nipped in the bud now, then things will get much worse in spring and summer when more people and youngsters flock to the embankment during the day and at night.

“Greater police visibility would help to resolve the issue I’m sure as it would send a message to anyone hanging around the area and carrying out antisocial behaviour.”

Richmond’s acting chief inspector of safer neighbourhoods, Hannah Wheeler, said: “Officers are aware of these incidents.

“We appreciate the importance of tackling this issue, not only to decrease disruption to residents but also to help ensure the safety of those involved.

“As such, officers will continue to patrol the area both in plain clothes and uniform, particularly on Friday and Saturday evenings which are usually the busiest nights of the week.”

Councillor Virginia Morris, the council’s cabinet member for environment, said: “It’s not a question of not having resources. We opened up this section of the riverside for people to enjoy at a time that suits them. It would defeat the point to lock it every evening and deny people who work all day the chance to sit there and watch the sun go down.

“Our staff will ask the police to visit the site regularly. We’ll also check the number of incidents actually reported there, it is important residents tell police about concerns so action can be taken.”

Comments(38)

Twickenham Bob says...
9:59am Fri 27 Jan 12

What about the parents? I know a lot of cases where the parents buy their young teenage children alcohol, and tell them to stay out the house. We need some parents dragged before the courts. Its currently risk free for the parents to encourage this behaviour.

They need to be named and shamed as they are far more at fault than the children involved.

If we are not carefull there will be breakdown of law & order like there is on Richmond Riverside most summer evernings, with mass underage drinking.

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Gareth Roberts says...
10:10am Fri 27 Jan 12

It really does beggar belief that when presented with evidence of anti-social drinking and alleged safe-guarding issues regarding the young people of Twickenham the response of Cllr Morris is the equivalent of sticking her fingers in her ears and shouting 'Not Listening! Not Listening!'

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RiverLover says...
10:14am Fri 27 Jan 12

Gareth...so come on outline an enlightened policy for this issue.

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Gareth Roberts says...
10:44am Fri 27 Jan 12

An enlightened policy? But of course

1) Listen to the views of the residents who are being directly affected by them - it may sound obvious but this problem didn't exist before the council took the decision to open up the site so it is a problem of the council's making

2) Lock the gates at night. Why not? It happens in many of our local parks to deal with this very issue, why is this riverside location considered to be exempt?

3) Consider reopening the gates during the summer evenings when there may be greater legitimate demand for the use of the area. The cafe would probably be keen to remain open to capitalise on the increased trade opportunity and they could adopt responsibility for locking the gates when the area closes

4) Advertise opening times on the site - again this is common place for many of our parks.

What should NOT happen is that Cllr Morris should allow the current situation to continue without taking steps to address the issue. It isn't enough to simply say 'Call the police if you're bothered' because she wants to keep the gates open on the off chance that somebody might want to enjoy a sunset in the company of kids sitting boozing on the next bench.

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bandit63 says...
10:57am Fri 27 Jan 12

The gates to the gardens at the back of York House next to the Sculpture Gardens (sorry - mental block on the name) are locked everynight, so do the same with the Riverisde park. The people locking up would only have to spend an extra 5 minutes doing this What a stupid answer from Counciller Morris - she obviously has no idea of the what goes on behind one of the Council's own major buildings.

For once , agree with Bob. If there is persistent underage drinking by the same kids, then drag the parents into court and make them take charge. Kids learn by example, so if parents actually take responsibility, then some of our problems may get solved over time. However, let's not blow up the problem bigger than it is. Most kids are ok and responsible, it's the minority that aren't and refelct badly on the rest.

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alex twickenham says...
3:12pm Fri 27 Jan 12

It might be my febrile imagination, or has anyone else noticed how often LibDem Councillor Roberts is offered a patsy question like this one from RiverLover? Despite his challenging daily grind as MD of a, no doubt, successful Market Research business, he still managed to post a well reasoned reply within 30 minutes. Perhaps business was a bit quiet on a Friday morning, nevertheless, it was still amazingly quick for a hot-shot Councillor/MD on the last day of the business week.
As an aside; he has taken to describing anyone who opposes his point of view as "cheerleader" "pom-pom waver" etc - this is a rather tired tactic which I hope he will finally ditch. Come on Gareth, it's not very grown up is it? If you do, I might stop reminding you of your braggadocio about enjoying one of the safest LibDem seats in the borough.
Alex
PS: Gareth makes a fair point which I hope will be listened to - what a pity he can't control his political instincts. It's a fatal flaw.
PPS: Let's keep an eye on these sort of questions - shall we?

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lucullus says...
3:38pm Fri 27 Jan 12

As Cllr Morris observed "... We’ll also check the number of incidents actually reported there ..."

The story does seem oddly under-informed by any usable data: no numbers, no apparent incidents, and a picture of an empty bench with a can on it. Such are the big issues facing Twickenham, clearly!

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alex twickenham says...
4:46pm Fri 27 Jan 12

Aah! Here's another LibDem tactic from one of Gareth's chums, Lucullus aka Tim Lennon, school governor and LibDem activist
Supress anything you don't like under a pointless bit of piffle or waffle - or, dare I say it - dog poo? Tired Tim!
Alex.
PS: I'm not a Tory but I am most definitely opposed to the local Liberal Democrats who are anything but Liberal or Democratic.

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jeremyhm says...
7:15pm Fri 27 Jan 12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought it was the job of the police to maintain public order etc ("keeping the Queen's Peace"). The police have been informed - some time ago - that this a potential hot spot. What does the local Community Police Team have to say?
Also, the picture shows litter; everyone knows that litter encourages litter. So I appeal to everyone who passes by this spot just to step up and put any litter in the bin (as I do); it only takes a moment, and could make all the difference. Litter pickers of the Borough, unite!

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RiverLover says...
7:15am Sat 28 Jan 12

Just to put the record straight as Gareth will concur - Gareth and I have no mutual affiliation or even know each other.

As we know Gareth is a frequent commentor on these pages. Quite often he just enjoys chucking a bucket of cold water over any Conservative policy. Fair enough, but I would like Gareth's alternative to the point in question.

Hopefully when Gareth starts filling up the buckets in future he will also give an alternative policy rather than just snipe. I asked for his policy on the 30 minute parking and now for this problem of the riverside.

Gareth has duly answered...they are not a 'patsy question' but just legitimate enquiries. Thus we can have a debate based on a point of policy and discuss possible solutions and alternatives.

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TrevorC says...
10:54am Sat 28 Jan 12

Fair enough RiverLover. You ask for alternative policies from Cllr Gareth Roberts and he promptly responds, with what seem to be reasonable answers. But who would want to be a councillor and trying to please the more enagaged public?

If councillors don't publicly and openly engage, people complain. If councillors do engage, they get criticised for being politically biased, or expressing their views too often, or too promptly. or for taking too long to respond. Or for simply following the party line. Or for only stating a personal view and not having power or influence to change party policy.

You don't fare much better as an engaged member of the public either, having seen the recent criticism of one particular person for her views appearing too often. Or criticism for the demise of an originally intended independent group to challenge the status quo. At least they tried.

The saying goes that it is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all, but in local politics you need an ultra thick skin to do that. Whether you agree with Cllr Gareth Roberts or not, as most contributors here don't, at least give him credit for his openness, his thick skin and for putting his head above the parapet in challenging policies and decisions. As a relatively new councillor, he was not part of what many of us see as the stained years of Lib Dem rule.

You may support much of what the Conservative administration is doing but complacency unchecked is nearly always a slippery slope. Delivering a promised open space area that many wanted deserves credit but if there are unfortunate consequences (which maybe should have been forseen) then even more credit for swiftly providing solutions to deal with them.

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lucullus says...
1:30pm Sat 28 Jan 12

Always enjoy being trolled by you, Alex: and very happy to refer, again, to most of your verbiage as as useful as dog excrement. You add nothing to the comments here apart from intemperate whining, off-topic comments, and the same pathetic themes time after time.

Whichever local party is in power, they'll always be delighted with your utter failure to deploy your intellect of any form of useful analysis or calling to account.

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alex twickenham says...
2:52pm Sat 28 Jan 12

Ouch! I've clearly ruffled Lucullus's feathers or his lycra has been chafing. There's really no point in trying to reason with these sort of people - they are so convinced of their own rectitude that they have to resort to this sort of unpleasant abuse rather than adopt the cutting humour which Gareth Roberts is so good at. Come on Tim! You can do better than that - can't you?
Let's also remember that this poster is a governor of one of the schools in our borough - would you want someone who describes another's words as "dog excrement" playing a part in your childrens upbringing?
I wouldn't.
Alex.

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EdwinaWaugh says...
11:50am Sun 29 Jan 12

Twickenham Bob opens this discussion by logically asking "Where are the parents?" The answer is sadly that today 'parents' are thin on the ground. A lot of single women and a few, very few, single men, out of their depths with packs of feral youth.

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TrevorC says...
1:14pm Sun 29 Jan 12

Resolving the parental responsibility is a longer term issue, a more complex debate and a tough one to crack if it is to be a genuine and sustainable solutuon. (Rather than shifting the problem around, like pass the parcel). Locking the gates at dusk is a simpler and quicker solution to moving the drunken behaviour to somewhere else, but of course it won't solve the issue of drunken behaviour and underage drinking.

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EdwinaWaugh says...
2:11pm Sun 29 Jan 12

TrevorC: I can't see why decent citizes should be deprived of the use of amenities for which they pay very high council taxes. For once, a robust police force, consisting of real police with full powers, and not Community Support Police helpers should arrest the drunkards. The parents of under-age drinkers should be fined and severe custodial sentences should be given if it is proved that juveniles were provided with alcohol.

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TrevorC says...
3:15pm Sun 29 Jan 12

I'm not sure that "decent citizens" want to be using park open space amenities during darkness, even less so during the winter months, or on Friday and Saturday night close to a town centre. I'll stand corrected if they should fill the space vacated by the drunkards.

Aren't the reduced police force busy enough dealing with drunken behaviour in the town centres on a Friday and Saturday night? And aren't our prisons already overcrowded?

Are ALL parents responsible for their teenage children's behaviour at ALL times? I think you will find that drunk and bad behaviour extends to those that come from middle class and otherwise respectable backgrounds. Even, dare I say, those from a very privileged upbringing and educated at schools such as Eton, who one day may be London Mayor, Chancellor of the Exchequer, or even Prime Minister?

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TrevorC says...
3:44pm Sun 29 Jan 12

By way, just for clarity, I agree that the law does need to be strictly enforced with those that sell or provide aclohol to under age teenagers.

Although I don't see what is wrong with parents providing and supervising alcohol drinking for 16 and 17 year olds, which can be part of an education about responsible drinking, rather than just letting them loose to get drunk at 18 because it has become the legal age of responsibility and for drinking alcohol.

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EdwinaWaugh says...
4:07pm Sun 29 Jan 12

TrevorC: The police force is being reduced, and this foolish 'economy' should at once cease. Whether you or I wish to visit parks after dark, is neither here nor there. Local authorities have a responsibility to see that public places are safe and available for the said public. If prisons are overcrowded - too bad, let the criminals suffer some of the discomfort which is the norm for too many law-biding citizens. Irrespective of social or monetary class the parents(s) are responsible for their offspring. We cannot dump everything on a nanny State.

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alex twickenham says...
8:57pm Sun 29 Jan 12

TrevorC,
I fear that you have been handbagged by the ever fragrant EdwinaW, just as I was brutally mugged by the distinctly unfragrant lycra clad Lucullus aka the dog poo man. Nevertheless, you make extremely sound observations and I hope that the responsible councillors and police officers take note and act. Even though few participate, many of them keep an eye on these pages and have a duty to stop this sort of minor anti-social behaviour. It will probably surprise Cll'r Gareth Roberts to learn that I agree with his suggested actions although I wish he would try to restrain himself and rein in the party rhetoric - it's ever more tedious and tends to irritate rather than educate. I wonder what he wants to achieve or whether he cares a jot about what we think?
Alex

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mark13 says...
10:24pm Sun 29 Jan 12

Just to point out. It does say 'Older Men'. It's not just teenagers.

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lucullus says...
10:48pm Sun 29 Jan 12

"... tends to irritate rather than educate." For a moment I thought you might be in the mood for a bit of self-reflection! Do let me know when yo've actually seen a picture of me on a bicycle, by the way ...

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ken elmes says...
11:41am Mon 30 Jan 12

The problem has to be tackled in the right place, not squabble among political parties. Super Markets and Off Licences must be stopped selling alcoholic drinks to cheap and stop drinking in public places except licensed premises and in the home. Local parties and the Council should bring pressure to bear on the LibDemCon government to change the law.
Ken Elmes, Former Councillor and Publican

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alex twickenham says...
12:17pm Mon 30 Jan 12

Self reflection? Sorry Lucullus, apart from the freedom pass, that is one of the few bonuses which come with the ageing process. I do it all the time now. Judging by your rather spooky mugshot on Twitter, I don't think you are anywhere near that watershed yet - lucky you! As to the bike - other readers might care to "troll" his Twitter page, as I have done, and draw their own conclusions. It's bizarre and he seems somewhat obsessed with FOI requests and bicycles - safe to assume he wears lycra? Probably.
Since I'm a Yorkshireman, may I please remind readers of the old saying: "there's nowt so queer as folk".
Alex

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AndreD says...
2:55pm Mon 30 Jan 12

With Heatham House and other youth groups set to close, will this not exacerbate the problem? If I was 16 I would probably want to get blotto every weekend at the mere thought of how bleak my future is!

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EdwinaWaugh says...
4:45pm Mon 30 Jan 12

AndreD: Poor likkle diddums, fah!

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EdwinaWaugh says...
4:46pm Mon 30 Jan 12

AndreD: Poor likkle diddums, fah!

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AndreD says...
6:25pm Mon 30 Jan 12

The stench of "they don't vote-therefore they don't matter" is overwhelming around Richmond Council at the minute.

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EdwinaWaugh says...
6:31pm Mon 30 Jan 12

Andre D: It was nesrly sixty years since I was sixteen, yet I still recall (and sometimes feel) the joy of being alive and free. Do sixteen year olds today really want to be involved in anything so establishment and organised as a council youth club? It seems sad that Nanny State seems to have crushed the self reliance of the people. Why can't these youth who want an orgqnised place create one themselves?
Sorry if I sounded rude.

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AndreD says...
6:49pm Mon 30 Jan 12

Edwina, if only it was as simple as setting up like that! Nowdays you would have to go through 50 miles of red tape, and make sure that there isn't a peadophile within a 5km radius. This is why services such as Heatham House are kept open. I have heard events at Heatham are often attended by as many as 1,000 youngsters- if this was closed, and these people were too socialise in the street, the problem of teenagers street drinking would surely increase.

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EdwinaWaugh says...
7:57pm Mon 30 Jan 12

AndreD: I Take your word for it!
When I was a kid there were a few 'dirty old men' around, and our mothers told us not to speak to strangers. Seems to me, that today a lot of the paedophiles are establishment figures: teachers, religious leaders, social workers, et al.
Glad I'm not a youngster today.

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lucullus says...
12:46pm Tue 31 Jan 12

"Today", Edwina? Today, the authorities do a much better job of pursuing paedophiles than when you were a child, and more and more establishment figures from long ago seem to be finally getting the prison time they deserve.

What's different today is that too many parents believe, without any useful evidence, that abuse is more prevalent than it used to be, and are therefore less likely to let their children out to play independently. That's why being a youngster today is harder.

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TrevorC says...
9:48pm Tue 31 Jan 12

A starting point should be not to see all youth as the enemy. And if you don't want them hanging around in public places then far better that they have amenities and facilities provided, where they can gather and socialise in a supervised and welcoming environment. That in itself may not eradicate under age drinking and anti-social behaviour but it would probably reduce it significantly. And it would offer protection from older men setting a bad example or whose intentions may be of the worst kind.

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Twickenham resident says...
11:16pm Tue 31 Jan 12

Unless instances of anti social behaviour are reported to the Police otherwise they have no reason to know of them and cannot put the necessary resources in place - eg. patrolling down by the Riverside.

PS perhaps youth clubs should give spelling lessons....

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Twickenham resident says...
11:21pm Tue 31 Jan 12

sorry - post should have read:

Unless instances of anti social behaviour are reported to the Police, they they have no reason to know of them and cannot put the necessary resources in place - eg. patrolling down by the Riverside.....

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EdwinaWaugh says...
11:45pm Tue 31 Jan 12

Twickenham Resident: Surely you are being sarcastic! Have you ever tried to report anything to the police and have them act upon it?

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Twickenham resident says...
9:21pm Wed 1 Feb 12

I have actually. I was burgled once and the burglar left a perfect trainer footprint on my windowledge. The police said they knew who it was (a prolific Twickenham burglar) but they knew the court would throw it out because it didn't prove the burglar was wearing the trainers! lol

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Twickenham Bob says...
12:24pm Thu 2 Feb 12

I should clarify my point I made earlier. I know quite a few parents who buy boxes of beer, and bottles of wine for their teenage (under 18 children so that they can go out and drink with their mates outside of the house.

These are parents in professional jobs (banking, law etc) and the kids go to private schools.

In one memorable episode that was recounted by the outraged parents at a dinner party; they had supplied a create of beer for their 15 year old son to consume on Twickenham Green with his mates one summer evening.

That evening they were called by A&E as their son had been beaten up, by gang of girls, who wanted to help themselves to their alcohol.

The parents, at the dinner party, were furious at the police for not pursuing the matter! Wanting to pursue a private prosecution.

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